In the inaugural episode of the anticipated podcast on the nexus between higher education and community economic development, called The Common Wealth, University of Michigan Law Professor Dana Thompson invites University of Michigan Regent Mark Bernstein as her first guest. The two discuss Bernstein's legal and professional career and the University of Michigan's impact on the City of Detroit as well as it's continued engagement with the state's largest city. Professor Thompson, who is the founding director of the Zell Entrepreneurship Clinic as well as the director of the Community Enterprise Clinic also discusses with Regent Bernstein the University of Michigan's Center for Innovation in Detroit, which is being billed as a world-class research, education, and entrepreneurship center designed to stimulate economic development in Michigan's urban core.
In the inaugural episode of the anticipated podcast on the nexus between higher education and community economic development, called The Common Wealth, University of Michigan Law Professor Dana Thompson invites University of Michigan Regent Mark Bernstein as her first guest. The two discuss Bernstein's legal and professional career and the University of Michigan's impact on the City of Detroit as well as it's continued engagement with the state's largest city. Professor Thompson, who is the founding director of the Zell Entrepreneurship Clinic as well as the director of the Community Enterprise Clinic also discusses with Regent Bernstein the University of Michigan's Center for Innovation in Detroit, which is being billed as a world-class research, education, and entrepreneurship center designed to stimulate economic development in Michigan's urban core.
Regent Mark Bernstein's Bio - https://regents.umich.edu/regents/mark-j-bernstein/
Professor Dana Thompson's UM Law Faculty page - https://michigan.law.umich.edu/faculty-and-scholarship/our-faculty/dana-thompson
Professor Dana Thompson's LinkedIn page - https://www.linkedin.com/in/dana-thompson-jd-aba10b22/
University of Michigan Law School's Community Enterprise Clinic - https://michigan.law.umich.edu/academics/experiential-learning/clinics/community-enterprise-clinic-0
Mark Bernstein Edit with Timestamps 03.05.25
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Hello and welcome to the Commonwealth.
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Your podcast about community development
in Detroit and other urban communities.
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This is your host,
Dana Thompson, law professor and attorney.
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This podcast explores the various
projects, laws, policies, ideas,
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and activities used to address the pressing issues facing
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Detroit and other urban communities.
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The Commonwealth will engage in thought
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provoking and lively discussions
with a range of thought leaders,
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including those from the grassroots
community, government
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academy, philanthropic sector and beyond.
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We will examine the projects,
laws, policies and activities
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used to develop urban communities
and whether these tools are able
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to create systemic change
and economic justice in these communities.
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Welcome.
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This Is the Commonwealth,
a podcast about community
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Development and economic justice in Detroit.
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And other urban communities.
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In this inaugural broadcast,
I'm pleased to be joined
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by University of Michigan
Regent and attorney Mark Bernstein.
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Given Mark's extensive
and distinguished leadership in the law
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and in the civic and public service
arenas, I can think of no better person
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to kick off the podcast discussions
about community development in Detroit,
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particularly
as it relates to higher education.
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Mark is a triple
A Wolverine, earning a BA, JD,
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an MBA from the University of Michigan.
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He's the president and managing partner
of the Sam Bernstein Law Firm, LLC.
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In 2018,
he served as the director of Michigan
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Governor Gretchen
Whitmer's transition offi ce.
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He's the longest serving member
of the Michigan Civil Rights Commission,
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appointed by Governor
Jennifer Granholm in 2004
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and serving until 2012.
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In 2012, Michigan voters elected Mark
to serve on the University
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of Michigan Board of Regents,
and he was reelected in 2020.
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His current term expires
January 1st, 2029.
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Mark is a distinguished attorney,
public offi cial, and civic leader
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in Michigan, serving
and leading on numerous nonprofi t boards.
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It is my pleasure to welcome you
to the Commonwealth Podcast.
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So good to be here.
Thanks for having me. Great seeing you.
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Absolutely. It's exciting.
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It's really exciting.
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I know if any of you know
that I live up to that billing.
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I don't know that. Oh.
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We know you.
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Absolutely.
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And I talked about all of these
great accomplishments you have.
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And anybody who's in the area
sees you often.
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On. Billboards.
We love it. And commercials.
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But I'd like to know
the Mark Bernstein story.
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Can you tell us,
Give us a more complete picture?
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Sure. Let me do my best to do that. I,
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so I grew up in southeast Michigan.
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And, product
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of public education from,
you know, never set foot
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in a private school, for,
for any part of my education.
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Kindergarten to to, k through 12
and then University of Michigan for
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undergrad and then,
where I majored in, political science
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and then straight into law school
and then added an MBA
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while I was in law school.
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So a JDM V8 program.
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That was before the kind of joint
as a faculty member of the
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that joint programs were much more
you kind of had to do it yourself.
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There was a flier in the registrar's
offi ce or something about, about it.
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There were all these color coded fliers,
if you want to do JD, MBA, right.
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MD, JD Public Health, JD social work, JD
this, JD that.
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Yeah.
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And, you know, I pulled
I remember it was like a salmon colored
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flier and I picked it up
and it's kind of do it yourself, okay.
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I kind of spent a lot of time.
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So the fi rst year I did law,
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then I went to business school before
It was the Ross school.
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And then the last year and a half
For two years, I started in the summer.
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I don't know if you ever taught summer
start or. No, I didn't.
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Yeah. So I was a summer starter and. Okay.
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I went to a bar in Michigan.
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Miraculously,
I passed it and then I went straight to
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I was going to start working with my join
my family's law fi rm.
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Okay.
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And, but while I was a student, well,
I was a law student at Michigan.
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I kind of it wasn't really an internship,
but I had an opportunity to work.
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With this is during the Clinton
administration with the white House.
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White House advance team had come to help
set up a job for President Clinton.
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And so I got to meet
some of the people involved in that.
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And then one thing led to another,
and I ended up getting an opportunity
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to work at the white House in Washington.
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So instead,
I took a detour instead of going to work
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at, you know, with my family.
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I ended up going off to Washington,
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work there for
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not all of, but most of the second Clinton
administration.
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Okay.
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And then, after that, I went to New York,
worked on Wall Street for
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for three years or so when my wife Rachel
went to law school there.
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And then, and then we returned
to Ann Arbor, where I was at that point.
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And that's when I did join the law fi rm,
started working on the Civil Rights
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Commission, was appointed by governor
Grant.
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Granholm.
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And absolutely,
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you know, fell in love with this, fell
back in love, I guess, with this place.
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Right.
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Had the opportunity to be involved in
the law, to be involved in the civic
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and political arena is to do good things,
and to make an impact.
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This was a unique place
for me to be able to do that. And
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and so the
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Civil Rights Commission was really
the fi rst place that I really engage
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pretty intensely and in work
That was really meaningful to me.
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And I think I hope for, for the community
and, you know, Linda Parker
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was the director of the department
when I was the chair of the department.
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She's now on the federal bench. Right?
Yeah.
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Eastern district. In Michigan.
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And she's an amazing person.
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And but we kind of caused good trouble,
right.
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As people say. Right.
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And yeah, including the thing that I'm
most proud of would be interesting to us.
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We should be great guests, by the way.
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Oh, great.
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But, including this investigation
that we did
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into the living conditions
of migrant worker families.
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Michigan was the, is
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well, at the time,
I think we might still be the fourth
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largest
migrant population in the United States
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when it comes to children,
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because of the seasonality
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and the type of crops
that are grown in Michigan
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and the types of crops that require
migrant workers and the living conditions
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that were that these workers were
The experiences were atrocious.
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And so the Civil Rights Commission
and the department
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launched an investigation into the living
conditions of migrant workers.
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And we visited camps.
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And it was really the fi rst time that the,
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that that
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this issue had been really intensely
explored and studied.
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And we came out with a 100 page
100 pages long, hundreds of pages.
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There were lots of exhibits, but.
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Right, I don't know, almost
a thousand pages of material on this
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or on the, on
what was happening in these camps.
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And, among many other things that we did
to get on that commission.
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And so when that opportunity,
when that period of time ended, you know,
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I was really inspired by my brother
Richard,
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who ran our public service division
at the law fi rm.
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He served on, the Wayne State University
Board of Governors, actually.
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That's right.
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Yeah.
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And then,
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when an opportunity arose to run for
university of Michigan Board of Regents,
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I jumped at it.
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That's now almost ten years ago,
I believe.
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So, and that's been another opportunity
to make, I think, really,
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I hope meaningful impact on the community
and do good things.
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Absolutely.
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Wow. That's a that's a more resume
kind of a review, but.
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Oh, no.
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That's you know, the type of things
that I've been involved in.
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So how have your professional
and public service work?
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How has that work
been inspired by your family?
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That's a really good question.
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So my, my grandmother,
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Estelle Nelson, was one of the fi rst
female attorneys in Michigan.
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And to put into context
her accomplishment.
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She became a lawyer.
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She passed the bar the same year that
Sandra Day O'Connor had just passed away.
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Right. Was three years old.
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So she was really at the,
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you know, a remarkable,
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leader in that space.
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Groundbreaker in a lot of ways.
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Right.
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And so
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and then my and then there was also Mandel
Bernstein, who was my grandfather,
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my dad's side, who was a labor
lawyer, was engaged in
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the political arena, had his own with his
brother and Yiddish radio show that was,
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very popular in the Detroit area.
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Okay. And so,
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there was this kind of and it's funny
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because my dad and my mom, they were
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they were so focused
on building their practice.
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My dad's law practice,
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our family's law practice that they,
they were engaged in the political arena,
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but not in a, like in a
in a way that either I had become
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or that my brother is.
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And but there was this,
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expectation that we be engaged
in the affairs of our community
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and then we try to make a difference
in a positive way and that we,
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you know, with the privilege
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that we have
and the, ability to make an impact
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that we have, you should use it
and use it in a good, good, positive way.
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Do your very best to do it.
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And that's really been
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kind of embedded in my, our,
I should say our family's kind of,
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mission in a lot of ways.
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And so I think all the,
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all of that kind of rubbed off,
you know, and,
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we keep at it all the time.
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It's just,
how can we do important, impactful,
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thoughtful,
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work to make other people's lives.
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And in doing so, our own better.
00:10:21:21 - 00:10:23:13
Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah.
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Cultivating that.
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That's sense of,
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public interest and giving back
and that that's so important.
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Yeah.
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Did they also cultivate and you,
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connection with Detroit
and the importance of Detroit?
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Yeah. I mean, Detroit was always central.
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Like, you know, my both
My parents grew up in Detroit.
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Their parents grew up in Detroit. Okay.
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And so it was absolutely part
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of our kind of roots, our awareness.
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We didn't live in Detroit. Okay.
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But we we were deeply connected
to it in meaningful ways.
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And, of course, you know, the
00:11:06:07 - 00:11:10:05
the courts that my dad spent his time
in, we're here, you know, Wayne County
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Circuit Court was, you know,
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where, you know, he spent an enormous
amount of his time, right?
00:11:15:09 - 00:11:19:09
And so, you know, just tagging along and
being in that arena was something that,
00:11:20:11 - 00:11:22:23
really rubbed off.
00:11:22:23 - 00:11:25:00
We were not,
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you know, it was interesting
growing up in suburban Detroit.
00:11:29:06 - 00:11:34:04
There were interesting there were people
who had nothing to do with Detroit.
00:11:34:13 - 00:11:36:16
You know
Detroit was like over there. Right.
00:11:36:16 - 00:11:39:16
And we spent time in the city.
00:11:40:20 - 00:11:44:13
And and that was part
00:11:44:13 - 00:11:47:21
of became part of our kind of
I wouldn't say it's part of our identity.
00:11:47:22 - 00:11:50:12
I don't know exactly. Go too far.
00:11:50:12 - 00:11:53:11
But it was clearly something
that was familiar to us.
00:11:53:11 - 00:11:56:23
It was
we were aware of it and we were engaged
00:11:57:02 - 00:12:00:08
in, in the affairs of the city
in a lot of ways.
00:12:00:13 - 00:12:03:21
Yeah. That's pretty unique especially.
00:12:03:24 - 00:12:08:24
You know, I remember in the 70s
and 80s, people from the suburbs
00:12:09:07 - 00:12:12:20
didn't usually want to go into Detroit
too often.
00:12:12:20 - 00:12:17:03
So that's a
That's a unique and enriching perspective.
00:12:18:04 - 00:12:21:03
So when thinking about
00:12:21:03 - 00:12:24:19
you talked a bit about,
being a regent and,
00:12:26:03 - 00:12:30:18
can you just talk about your view on
the role of higher education institutions
00:12:30:21 - 00:12:35:23
and addressing inequities in Detroit
and other urban communities?
00:12:36:00 - 00:12:39:18
That's really well,
It's an urgent and important question.
00:12:39:20 - 00:12:41:18
Right. It's interesting.
00:12:41:18 - 00:12:44:18
I just came from the groundbreaking
for the University of Michigan Center
00:12:44:18 - 00:12:47:22
for innovation and CNI project,
where Santa Ono, our,
00:12:47:23 - 00:12:50:23
our president, said something
I never heard anybody say, but it's it's
00:12:50:23 - 00:12:53:02
brilliant and it's it's really thoughtful
00:12:53:02 - 00:12:55:08
and I'm going to steal it
or at least use it right now.
00:12:55:08 - 00:12:58:14
And he said, you know,
he views his role as the president
00:12:58:14 - 00:13:02:00
of the University of Michigan
and also the University of Michigan. Yes.
00:13:02:00 - 00:13:05:14
And I was,
I thought that was really a great way
00:13:05:14 - 00:13:08:23
to frame the
the mission of a great public university.
00:13:08:24 - 00:13:09:21
I mean, just like Wayne State.
00:13:10:22 - 00:13:12:24
And so it is up the road.
00:13:12:24 - 00:13:16:04
You know, we are as you know, Barry,
from your work at Wayne State
00:13:16:08 - 00:13:17:06
and you work at Michigan.
00:13:17:06 - 00:13:20:10
Like we are unique in this state
where we have
00:13:20:10 - 00:13:23:10
great 15 extraordinary public
universities.
00:13:23:10 - 00:13:26:15
Oftentimes
overlooked people don't fully appreciate
00:13:26:15 - 00:13:30:00
how remarkable our public education
system is K through 12.
00:13:30:00 - 00:13:32:18
And of course our higher education
system. Right.
00:13:32:18 - 00:13:35:19
And they are
there are three that have publicly elected
00:13:35:19 - 00:13:38:19
boards Wayne State,
Michigan State and University of Michigan.
00:13:38:24 - 00:13:44:16
And I think that that is an essential part
of the identity of the university.
00:13:44:16 - 00:13:45:00
Each of these,
00:13:45:00 - 00:13:48:21
you know, of these great universities
and having a publicly elected board,
00:13:49:08 - 00:13:52:11
I think it does
a number has a number of benefi ts.
00:13:52:13 - 00:13:56:07
The most important one, in my view,
is that it just isn't constant reminder
00:13:56:16 - 00:14:01:12
to the leadership of the universities,
to the leader, to the faculty,
00:14:01:12 - 00:14:04:12
to the staff, to the administration,
and sometimes to the students
00:14:04:14 - 00:14:07:11
that this is a public university
with a public mission.
00:14:07:11 - 00:14:11:09
And that mission, of course, includes,
of course, it includes the entire state,
00:14:11:09 - 00:14:15:20
but it includes the places in our state
that, have the most to teach us
00:14:16:02 - 00:14:20:00
and have, in many respects,
the most opportunity to benefi t
00:14:20:00 - 00:14:25:02
from the remarkable
educational power of the university
00:14:25:02 - 00:14:27:07
and the educational power,
the power of education,
00:14:27:07 - 00:14:31:05
and also the change in the trajectory
of a person's life
00:14:31:14 - 00:14:36:22
that a great college university education,
University education can be affordable.
00:14:38:00 - 00:14:41:07
These
universities are.
00:14:41:07 - 00:14:43:17
And I'll just talk about Michigan
because I'm the most familiar with them.
00:14:43:17 - 00:14:46:16
They are literally, in my view,
the most important
00:14:46:16 - 00:14:49:16
ladders of towards prosperity,
00:14:49:18 - 00:14:51:19
that we have in our society.
00:14:51:19 - 00:14:57:03
And we have to channel that
00:14:58:11 - 00:15:01:17
to, you know, put those ladders in places
where they make the most impact.
00:15:02:08 - 00:15:06:17
And, and clearly doing
so in the city of Detroit it is essential.
00:15:07:11 - 00:15:10:11
We would be betraying our mission
if we did it. Yep.
00:15:10:12 - 00:15:11:13
And that's a constant.
00:15:11:13 - 00:15:13:11
It is an absolute. This is just not.
00:15:13:11 - 00:15:15:19
I mean, literally just came
from a groundbreaking event. Yeah.
00:15:15:19 - 00:15:17:17
To a quarter billion dollar program.
00:15:17:17 - 00:15:19:22
We're in the Detroit Center here.
00:15:19:22 - 00:15:22:11
Rack on the rack and building
as part of the University of Michigan's
00:15:22:11 - 00:15:23:19
kind of portfolio of activity.
00:15:23:19 - 00:15:26:19
We have over a thousand programs
in the city of Detroit going on,
00:15:26:22 - 00:15:29:22
whether they be educational,
programmatic research.
00:15:30:09 - 00:15:34:07
It's it's and this only deepens
that connection that we have to the city.
00:15:34:11 - 00:15:35:16
Absolutely.
00:15:35:16 - 00:15:39:19
So what are your expectations
of the center for innovation.
00:15:39:23 - 00:15:43:13
That's you know,
so the center for innovation
00:15:44:08 - 00:15:47:20
is in some ways is a work in progress.
00:15:48:09 - 00:15:51:09
And it should in my view
it should remain so.
00:15:51:15 - 00:15:55:05
I think that, that the fundamental mission
of this of the center for innovation
00:15:55:05 - 00:15:58:05
is to create a hub of, of,
00:15:58:06 - 00:16:01:13
of, of activity in the city of Detroit.
00:16:02:00 - 00:16:05:17
Where we are creating degrees
and providing,
00:16:06:03 - 00:16:11:02
educational opportunities
that are in some ways tailored to
00:16:11:02 - 00:16:14:02
and in some ways by employers
00:16:14:07 - 00:16:17:04
who are looking for particular skill sets.
00:16:17:04 - 00:16:20:04
And this the UMC will provide
00:16:20:06 - 00:16:24:01
a bridge into those opportunities
for Detroiters and for
00:16:24:06 - 00:16:27:23
and bring people into Detroit
to to live in Detroit,
00:16:27:24 - 00:16:29:09
participate in the programs
00:16:29:09 - 00:16:33:18
and educational opportunities
that the NCAA provides, and then hopefully
00:16:33:18 - 00:16:36:20
stay in the city of Detroit
and participate in the life of the city.
00:16:36:24 - 00:16:39:08
The other thing that is that has been
00:16:39:08 - 00:16:42:08
largely overlooked,
but I think it's really important.
00:16:43:00 - 00:16:47:12
Is that it goes it goes in two different
direct two directions.
00:16:47:12 - 00:16:48:07
Right. So right.
00:16:48:07 - 00:16:51:02
All the you know
We hope that the UMC is innovative.
00:16:51:02 - 00:16:53:22
But we also think
and you know this as a faculty member
00:16:53:22 - 00:16:59:07
that the UMC, I can serve as a place
where we can experiment and innovate
00:16:59:07 - 00:17:03:12
and bring those innovations back
to Ann Arbor, where we desperately need
00:17:04:00 - 00:17:08:01
creative approach,
new creative approaches to education.
00:17:09:06 - 00:17:10:17
That and
00:17:10:17 - 00:17:14:04
we're so risk averse on a big established
00:17:14:13 - 00:17:18:04
campus like the university of Michigan,
right, that sometimes you have to.
00:17:18:05 - 00:17:21:05
My hope is that we can go off campus.
00:17:21:08 - 00:17:25:14
Do some interesting creative stuff off
campus and then bring it back to Ann Arbor
00:17:25:23 - 00:17:28:17
and enrich the activities
that we do on our campus
00:17:28:17 - 00:17:30:19
and, and also Dearborn
and also Flint Hill.
00:17:30:19 - 00:17:32:18
Yes, absolutely. Yeah.
00:17:32:18 - 00:17:38:10
And those are some of the the richest
lessons that I see my students learn.
00:17:39:00 - 00:17:41:15
Being in the community,
working with community
00:17:41:15 - 00:17:44:15
based organizations and small businesses,
00:17:44:20 - 00:17:48:06
and really deepening their legal skills
00:17:48:06 - 00:17:51:16
and other skills
as a result of their exposure.
00:17:51:17 - 00:17:54:02
So it sounds like I mean, their students.
00:17:54:02 - 00:17:57:23
Must write like, just like,
you know, the it's one thing
00:17:57:23 - 00:18:01:00
to, to to go down a checklist
to start an LLC or something.
00:18:01:00 - 00:18:04:00
It's another thing
that I hear across from a client.
00:18:04:05 - 00:18:06:18
Who doesn't have a checklist?
00:18:06:18 - 00:18:08:23
Right.
Like they may not have the documentation.
00:18:08:23 - 00:18:09:11
Right.
00:18:09:11 - 00:18:15:02
It just there's
it just forces students to really confront
00:18:15:07 - 00:18:18:07
the reality of the world
that they are about to go into.
00:18:18:07 - 00:18:20:01
Absolutely. And this is right.
00:18:20:01 - 00:18:21:11
This is as real as it gets here.
00:18:21:11 - 00:18:22:11
Absolutely. Yeah.
00:18:22:11 - 00:18:24:14
Because even if they have the checklist,
00:18:25:14 - 00:18:27:19
they don't necessarily understand
00:18:27:19 - 00:18:31:13
why certain things are important or not
or don't care.
00:18:31:13 - 00:18:33:18
They just want to focus on their business.
00:18:33:18 - 00:18:39:06
And so students need to understand,
like I have to have interpersonal skills
00:18:39:06 - 00:18:42:19
to actually help them understand
Why is this important?
00:18:42:22 - 00:18:43:23
So yeah.
00:18:43:23 - 00:18:44:22
Right. Yeah.
00:18:44:22 - 00:18:47:07
Oh that's wonderful.
00:18:47:07 - 00:18:52:08
So, when I think young about,
00:18:53:10 - 00:18:58:00
the you talked a little bit
about the risks of the Innovation Center,
00:18:58:00 - 00:19:03:01
and, there is some risk averse ness
with any institution.
00:19:03:09 - 00:19:06:01
What are some of those risks?
00:19:06:01 - 00:19:08:19
So the risks, I think are,
00:19:08:19 - 00:19:10:08
I don't think it's really fi nancial.
00:19:10:08 - 00:19:14:01
I mean, the University of Michigan has
is a stable, wealthy,
00:19:14:22 - 00:19:18:00
prosperous institution fi nancially.
00:19:19:01 - 00:19:22:01
The risks are,
00:19:22:07 - 00:19:25:07
that it doesn't
live up to its expectations.
00:19:25:19 - 00:19:29:04
The risks are that
it fails to really engage
00:19:29:23 - 00:19:33:06
the city of Detroit
and the, the, the, the,
00:19:33:13 - 00:19:37:16
the broadly defi ned community
of stakeholders in the city of Detroit.
00:19:38:06 - 00:19:42:03
We and I know that the board
has been extremely, very focused
00:19:42:03 - 00:19:46:17
on making sure
that whatever happens at the UMC is,
00:19:47:16 - 00:19:49:07
is, is not.
00:19:49:07 - 00:19:52:14
It's of course,
we want students from Ann Arbor to engage
00:19:52:14 - 00:19:55:14
in what's happening at UMC or students
from within Dearborn.
00:19:55:15 - 00:19:59:09
But it would be it would be a it was so
good at this event that just came from.
00:19:59:10 - 00:19:59:17
Yeah.
00:19:59:17 - 00:20:04:03
To see the principal of Cass Tech
speaking at the opening event to speak.
00:20:04:05 - 00:20:07:10
She brought 11 of her top students,
00:20:08:16 - 00:20:09:15
to the event.
00:20:09:15 - 00:20:11:09
Okay.
00:20:11:09 - 00:20:14:15
It's across the street, literally
across the street from Cass Tech.
00:20:15:00 - 00:20:18:17
And so to see if we can make
00:20:18:18 - 00:20:21:07
if we can get those students,
fi
rst of all, interested
00:20:21:07 - 00:20:22:01
in the University of Michigan
00:20:22:01 - 00:20:25:06
because we benefi t enormously
by their presence on our campus.
00:20:26:16 - 00:20:28:11
That's a win, right.
00:20:28:11 - 00:20:31:17
And, and and if we can, give
00:20:31:17 - 00:20:34:17
those students
a reason to stay in Detroit.
00:20:34:23 - 00:20:38:16
I don't want them going to Chicago
or New York or Miami or LA.
00:20:38:16 - 00:20:40:17
I want them to stay in Detroit
and make a future here
00:20:40:17 - 00:20:43:17
and build a better future for themselves
and their community.
00:20:44:08 - 00:20:48:01
That's the if we don't do that, that is
00:20:49:11 - 00:20:49:23
that would
00:20:49:23 - 00:20:52:23
mean that we're, we're not optimizing
the opportunity here.
00:20:53:05 - 00:20:57:02
And that would be a, that's a risk
because otherwise you might as well
00:20:57:02 - 00:21:00:09
just put this thing in in Brighton
or something. Yes.
00:21:00:21 - 00:21:03:21
And it's not there for a reason.
00:21:03:24 - 00:21:07:12
So it's making sure that we're able
to accomplish
00:21:08:10 - 00:21:12:01
what I think
are quite aggressive aspirations.
00:21:12:16 - 00:21:15:20
And not fall short of it.
00:21:15:21 - 00:21:19:08
I mean it's also a hard
This is not a simple project.
00:21:19:08 - 00:21:21:03
It's kind of uncharted. Yeah.
00:21:21:03 - 00:21:24:03
As you know as an
and as an academic, it doesn't
00:21:24:06 - 00:21:28:08
quite perfectly belong inside
an academic world.
00:21:28:08 - 00:21:30:07
Like right.
Quite knows what to do with it.
00:21:30:07 - 00:21:32:01
It's not a department exactly.
00:21:32:01 - 00:21:34:23
It's not its own campus or school.
00:21:34:23 - 00:21:39:02
And so a risk on
and in a university arena. Is
00:21:40:03 - 00:21:42:10
it it could be a bit of a homeless
00:21:42:10 - 00:21:48:00
kind of wandering center
that has no champion for it.
00:21:48:02 - 00:21:48:13
Right.
00:21:48:13 - 00:21:51:18
And those, those,
that's a kind of a dangerous, vulnerable,
00:21:51:18 - 00:21:54:17
fragile place to be on a university
campus, right.
00:21:54:17 - 00:21:55:17
Absolutely.
00:21:55:17 - 00:21:58:05
So we'll we'll have to keep an eye out
to make sure that that doesn't happen.
00:21:58:05 - 00:21:59:19
Yeah.
00:21:59:19 - 00:22:03:17
So do you think there are particular,
things
00:22:03:17 - 00:22:08:22
that the Regents will do to make sure
that it's meeting those benchmarks?
00:22:08:24 - 00:22:09:17
Oh, sure.
00:22:09:17 - 00:22:09:21
Yeah.
00:22:09:21 - 00:22:12:18
I mean, the fi rst is making sure
that we have the right leadership there.
00:22:12:18 - 00:22:15:13
The second is to make sure
that it continues to get
00:22:15:13 - 00:22:18:15
the kind of visibility
that it needs in Ann Arbor.
00:22:19:05 - 00:22:22:05
To ensure
that no one takes our eye off the ball.
00:22:22:20 - 00:22:25:20
The third is to as you mentioned
00:22:26:04 - 00:22:29:04
have I think real
00:22:29:13 - 00:22:32:16
measurable precise goals
00:22:33:03 - 00:22:35:20
so that we are able to see it
if we're on track.
00:22:35:20 - 00:22:36:07
Right.
00:22:36:07 - 00:22:39:00
And if we're not on track
make adjustments. Right.
00:22:40:05 - 00:22:43:05
And then I think the most important,
00:22:43:17 - 00:22:47:24
kind of metric will be enrollment
will be to students and want to go there.
00:22:47:24 - 00:22:50:09
Do faculty want to teach there?
00:22:50:09 - 00:22:54:07
And if that's not happening,
then that's just obvious.
00:22:55:06 - 00:22:58:05
That's an obvious sign
that we got to change some things.
00:22:58:05 - 00:23:01:05
Right? Yeah. Right. Absolutely.
00:23:01:21 - 00:23:02:06
Yeah.
00:23:02:06 - 00:23:07:13
I mean, it's just interesting thing
when you hear about higher education.
00:23:08:09 - 00:23:12:00
These days, a lot of
there are a lot of concerns
00:23:12:00 - 00:23:16:22
about the value of higher education
and people, question
00:23:16:22 - 00:23:23:14
whether they should go into a university
or college or go straight to work.
00:23:23:14 - 00:23:28:02
And it seems like this
project is an innovative way
00:23:28:02 - 00:23:33:03
to show the value of higher education,
not just for the students,
00:23:33:03 - 00:23:35:14
but for the community.
I think that's true.
00:23:35:14 - 00:23:40:11
I you know, I think that the in
In some ways, universities are higher.
00:23:40:11 - 00:23:43:08
The higher education community has
00:23:44:16 - 00:23:45:22
in lost the
00:23:45:22 - 00:23:50:13
narrative in terms of making the case
for the value of higher education
00:23:50:13 - 00:23:53:13
and in particular,
the value of a liberal arts education.
00:23:54:12 - 00:23:57:00
And so great universities.
00:23:57:00 - 00:24:03:00
Well, they in some ways teach professions
or vocations are not vocational schools.
00:24:03:11 - 00:24:06:11
They are teaching a well,
ideally a well-rounded,
00:24:07:14 - 00:24:09:15
liberal arts education like small
00:24:09:15 - 00:24:12:15
l small a liberal arts education.
00:24:12:16 - 00:24:16:21
And in doing so, you're,
you're helping your teaching students,
00:24:18:02 - 00:24:21:24
and future leaders
hopefully how to solve problems,
00:24:21:24 - 00:24:27:12
how to do it in a way that's rooted
in the lessons and context of history and,
00:24:29:01 - 00:24:32:20
that's an essential part of,
of, of a civilization
00:24:32:20 - 00:24:36:01
that's thriving, of a society
that's advancing and,
00:24:36:24 - 00:24:41:22
you know, I, appreciate if I'm a student
sitting in a kitchen table
00:24:41:22 - 00:24:47:11
with my parents, trying to fi gure out
if it makes sense to pay 25 grand a year
00:24:47:11 - 00:24:51:06
if you're in Michigan, or $80,000
if you want to go to,
00:24:51:19 - 00:24:54:19
you know, Harvard
or Penn or Princeton or something.
00:24:55:02 - 00:24:57:18
Maybe more than that.
Yeah. Is it worth it?
00:24:57:18 - 00:25:00:01
And you know
all the data actually says that.
00:25:00:01 - 00:25:01:14
Of course it is. Right.
00:25:01:14 - 00:25:04:02
And in every way,
not just in terms of your earnings
00:25:04:02 - 00:25:05:16
but in terms of your life span.
00:25:05:16 - 00:25:08:15
I mean, in every way,
the more educated you are.
00:25:08:15 - 00:25:11:05
The better off you will be in your life.
00:25:12:19 - 00:25:15:06
In every possible way.
00:25:15:06 - 00:25:19:00
That's not, it doesn't mean you will you
00:25:19:00 - 00:25:23:03
if it's a necessity,
You know, you are indispensable.
00:25:23:07 - 00:25:26:07
You can have a amazing, fulfi lling,
impactful,
00:25:26:13 - 00:25:30:18
long and beautiful life
without going to college obviously.
00:25:32:07 - 00:25:34:19
But it is clear that it is
00:25:34:19 - 00:25:37:19
that we have, you know, there is a certain
00:25:38:23 - 00:25:40:12
I think
00:25:40:12 - 00:25:42:13
priority now on,
00:25:42:13 - 00:25:45:03
on kind of an, a kind of immediacy.
00:25:45:03 - 00:25:45:24
Right.
00:25:45:24 - 00:25:49:23
It is a, it is almost like an obvious
example of delayed gratifi cation.
00:25:49:23 - 00:25:52:18
Right.
You know, I'm going to pay a ton of money.
00:25:52:18 - 00:25:55:18
I'm going to spend four years or longer
00:25:56:06 - 00:25:58:12
studying basically.
00:25:58:12 - 00:26:02:08
Hoping that I get a better job
with higher pay afterward.
00:26:03:01 - 00:26:06:24
I get the impatience
that a lot of families and students feel.
00:26:06:24 - 00:26:08:24
Right.
00:26:08:24 - 00:26:10:16
And I think we maybe need to do a bit.
00:26:10:16 - 00:26:13:00
Maybe not. We defi nitely need
to do a better job proving
00:26:13:24 - 00:26:16:24
the worth and the value of it.
00:26:17:09 - 00:26:18:23
We also have to do a better job
00:26:18:23 - 00:26:21:23
at the University of Michigan
and other places.
00:26:22:08 - 00:26:26:01
Keep making sure that a college education
is affordable and accessible. Yes.
00:26:26:01 - 00:26:28:14
And that is a huge problem.
00:26:28:14 - 00:26:32:03
And we struggle with that
at the University of Michigan mightily.
00:26:32:13 - 00:26:35:14
We introduced the Go Blue guarantee
a few years ago, which,
00:26:36:04 - 00:26:37:15
which we're very, very proud of.
00:26:37:15 - 00:26:40:22
Yes. That has gone a very long way to,
00:26:41:22 - 00:26:44:10
making the University of Michigan
more accessible and affordable
00:26:44:10 - 00:26:48:00
for families across the state
and in particular in the city of Detroit.
00:26:48:04 - 00:26:49:06
Oh, really?
00:26:49:06 - 00:26:51:16
And in fact, there was some data,
00:26:51:16 - 00:26:55:04
recently
that students that are part of the global
00:26:55:09 - 00:26:58:08
Blue Guarantee program,
for lack of a better word,
00:26:58:08 - 00:27:01:07
have, on average,
like a signifi cantly higher grade point
00:27:01:07 - 00:27:03:16
average than students who are not.
And in some ways,
00:27:03:16 - 00:27:06:06
it's like these are students
who just know what the stakes are. Right.
00:27:06:06 - 00:27:09:16
They they're not there to go to to party
or go to a football game.
00:27:09:16 - 00:27:15:24
They're they're like, get high grades
and just get out and start succeeding.
00:27:15:24 - 00:27:17:02
Right. You know what I mean.
00:27:17:02 - 00:27:19:17
They don't have room for error, you know.
00:27:21:18 - 00:27:23:07
And so
00:27:23:07 - 00:27:26:16
it's proving itself out to be a really,
really transformative program.
00:27:26:18 - 00:27:27:19
That's fantastic.
00:27:27:19 - 00:27:29:22
And and other schools
have similar programs like it. But
00:27:29:22 - 00:27:32:07
Yeah. Yeah.
00:27:32:07 - 00:27:37:06
So when thinking about Detroiters
with this go blue guarantee,
00:27:37:06 - 00:27:40:12
you said that there have been positive
results,
00:27:41:18 - 00:27:43:01
in Detroit.
00:27:43:01 - 00:27:44:00
Oh, yes.
00:27:44:00 - 00:27:47:00
So the global guarantee
when it, when we introduced it
00:27:47:01 - 00:27:49:16
said the promise essentially.
00:27:49:16 - 00:27:54:15
Is that if you come from a family
with a household income of $65,000
00:27:54:21 - 00:27:58:03
or less, then you can go to the University
of Michigan.
00:27:58:03 - 00:28:00:09
Okay. For free.
00:28:00:09 - 00:28:03:16
And so the average, the mad, the, the,
00:28:03:16 - 00:28:06:16
the meaning behind the $65,000 number.
00:28:06:18 - 00:28:10:05
Is that they meet at the time
The global guarantee was announced.
00:28:10:13 - 00:28:14:22
The median household income in
The state of Michigan was about $64,000.
00:28:15:06 - 00:28:17:04
So basically we were targeting,
00:28:18:08 - 00:28:19:03
an approach that
00:28:19:03 - 00:28:23:07
enabled at least half of the households
in the state of Michigan
00:28:23:07 - 00:28:26:07
to send their kids
to the University of Michigan for free.
00:28:26:21 - 00:28:30:06
And, and I you know, sadly but true,
00:28:30:15 - 00:28:32:18
that's the household median household
income in the state,
00:28:32:18 - 00:28:36:13
in the city of Detroit
is signifi cantly less than it is.
00:28:37:00 - 00:28:41:18
So and I don't quite know what it is but,
but, but my guess is that probably 75%
00:28:42:06 - 00:28:44:23
of the students graduating from,
00:28:44:23 - 00:28:48:05
from in, from in the city of Detroit
are able
00:28:48:05 - 00:28:51:05
to go to University of Michigan for free,
which is a remarkable thing.
00:28:52:14 - 00:28:55:08
And it has been you know, we struggle
00:28:55:08 - 00:28:58:17
with diversity, equity and inclusion
in our economy as you know.
00:28:58:18 - 00:29:01:13
Yes, absolutely. All of our campuses.
00:29:01:13 - 00:29:05:15
But the ability
to make college affordable is
00:29:06:18 - 00:29:08:00
an essential part
00:29:08:00 - 00:29:11:21
of that, that effort. Yes.
00:29:11:22 - 00:29:13:24
Yeah. Absolutely.
00:29:13:24 - 00:29:16:13
So what do you hope
00:29:16:13 - 00:29:20:03
U of M's legacy
Will it be in the city of Detroit?
00:29:20:13 - 00:29:22:13
Like you know. Yeah.
00:29:22:13 - 00:29:25:13
That's a good question. I,
00:29:26:03 - 00:29:29:06
you know, we have had it's important
to recognize that the university has had
00:29:29:06 - 00:29:34:04
a very long the University of Michigan
started in the city of Detroit, 1917.
00:29:34:12 - 00:29:37:12
It left in 1837 or 1836.
00:29:37:12 - 00:29:38:17
1837. Yeah.
00:29:38:17 - 00:29:42:08
And then, you know, but we've had this
00:29:42:16 - 00:29:45:16
very long,
00:29:45:17 - 00:29:47:21
unbroken relationship
with the city of Detroit.
00:29:47:21 - 00:29:49:17
Right?
00:29:49:17 - 00:29:54:20
And, and so my hope
is that the legacy of the UMC, I program,
00:29:54:20 - 00:29:59:11
but also the university, is that
we are part of a
00:30:00:03 - 00:30:05:06
educational, political,
civic, cultural arts ecosystem
00:30:05:16 - 00:30:10:17
that enriches the lives of Detroiters
and showcases
00:30:10:23 - 00:30:15:09
these parts of life
beyond the city of Detroit,
00:30:15:09 - 00:30:16:18
because we have so many people
00:30:16:18 - 00:30:20:22
on our campus in Ann Arbor in particular,
who come from all over the world.
00:30:20:22 - 00:30:21:11
Yeah.
00:30:21:11 - 00:30:27:03
And so, yeah, to be able to be a bridge
into the city of Detroit for these,
00:30:28:15 - 00:30:32:05
for our students and faculty and staff
who have never set foot in the city,
00:30:32:05 - 00:30:35:09
probably before they became aware of it
to the university.
00:30:35:09 - 00:30:38:04
So for able to to
to play a role in that way,
00:30:38:04 - 00:30:40:18
I think that'd be really,
really important. Absolutely.
00:30:40:18 - 00:30:44:16
And hopefully will encourage
more of those people to stay in Michigan.
00:30:44:23 - 00:30:45:09
That's right.
00:30:45:09 - 00:30:47:17
Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah.
00:30:47:17 - 00:30:49:16
So that's all I have.
00:30:49:16 - 00:30:51:21
Oh well that's great.
This is really fantastic.
00:30:51:21 - 00:30:54:13
Thanks for having.
Absolutely appreciate it. Yeah.
00:30:54:13 - 00:30:55:20
Thanks for coming.
00:30:55:20 - 00:30:58:12
Thanks for being here and doing this.
00:30:58:12 - 00:31:00:22
Guinea pig. Yeah. Yeah. All right.
00:31:00:22 - 00:31:02:21
But it worked out.
Yeah. It's very. Good.
00:31:02:21 - 00:31:04:08
Thank you. Absolutely.
00:31:04:08 - 00:31:05:02
Thank you.
00:31:05:02 - 00:31:08:02
Thank you for joining us
on the Commonwealth Podcast.
00:31:08:06 - 00:31:11:17
Be sure to rate the podcast and subscribe.
00:31:12:03 - 00:31:16:20
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00:31:17:04 - 00:31:19:18
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00:31:21:03 - 00:31:23:16
This has been the Commonwealth Podcast.
00:31:23:16 - 00:31:27:23
The Commonwealth is a production of the
University of Michigan, Detroit Center
00:31:28:05 - 00:31:31:19
and the University of Michigan
Law School's Community Enterprise Clinic.
00:31:32:06 - 00:31:36:12
The Commonwealth is hosted and executive
produced by me, Dana Thompson.
00:31:37:01 - 00:31:39:18
It is executive produced by Feodies Shipp III.
00:31:39:18 - 00:31:45:03
The third, with production support
from Tiffany Chiang and Akita Kotian.