How can community land trusts help neighborhoods create affordable housing, preserve community assets, and shape their own development? In this episode of The Common Wealth, host Dana Thompson talks with community developer Tricia Talley about her path into community development and her work in Detroit’s North Corktown neighborhood. Tricia shares how her commitment to community-driven development led to her work creating an open space community land trust through the North Corktown Neighborhood Association and, more recently, the North Corktown Housing Community Land Trust, which is creating opportunities for affordable homeownership while preserving affordability for future buyers. Their conversation explores how community land trusts work, why community control of land matters, and how CLTs can be used as a tool to address affordable housing, neighborhood change, and long-term community development in Detroit and beyond. Listen to a conversation about what it takes to move from an idea about community ownership to the practical work of creating institutions that give residents a meaningful role in shaping the future of their neighborhoods.
How can community land trusts help neighborhoods create affordable housing, preserve community assets, and shape their own development?
In this episode of The Common Wealth, host Dana Thompson talks with community developer Tricia Talley about her path into community development and her work in Detroit’s North Corktown neighborhood.
Tricia shares how her commitment to community-driven development led to her work creating an open space community land trust through the North Corktown Neighborhood Association and, more recently, the North Corktown Housing Community Land Trust, which is creating opportunities for affordable homeownership while preserving affordability for future buyers.
Their conversation explores how community land trusts work, why community control of land matters, and how CLTs can be used as a tool to address affordable housing, neighborhood change, and long-term community development in Detroit and beyond.
Listen to a conversation about what it takes to move from an idea about community ownership to the practical work of creating institutions that give residents a meaningful role in shaping the future of their neighborhoods.
00:00:00 Speaker: Grassroots literally means two or three people making big strides in the neighborhood. And that's literally what I did without knowing I was doing it. Welcome to the Commonwealth. Lively and informative conversations with change makers and thought leaders, from grassroots leaders to policy makers, about what's actually working to build fair, thriving urban communities in Detroit and beyond. I'm your host, Dana Thompson. Stagnant wages, rising construction costs, and high interest rates are a few of the issues leading to an affordable housing crisis in the United States. A tool being used to address this crisis is the Community Land Trust. On today's episode, we're diving into the importance of Clts with Tricia Talley. Tricia is a community real estate developer and urban planning professional with over a decade of experience advancing affordable housing, equitable land use and resident led neighborhood revitalization. Thanks for joining me today. Dana, thank you for having me. So can you tell me more about your background and what inspired you to be a community development leader in North Corktown? I was actually being nosy. I wanted to verify, um, if the rumor about the development that was coming to the North Corktown area was true. It was my intentions to have the development built around the residents that already resided there, versus how it's normally done when redevelopment comes in. There is no community engagement. There's no connection with the residents that have weathered the storm, particularly the legacy residents. So it was my intentions to have everyone have a say in the development that supposedly was coming to the area. Okay. Yeah. So tell me about North Corktown. North Corktown is a little area that in two thousand and eight, young white males were pouring into North Corktown from Upper Michigan because of the lack of density reminded them of the the beauty of Upper Michigan. There were um, there were a couple of dilapidated homes, but for the most part it was just all trees and, and beautiful, um, flowers. And I moved there temporarily after, um, after I lost my fiance. I wanted a place to stay that I would not necessarily be responsible for like owning a house, but I would have that freedom. So I got this townhouse. Um, at the time, I didn't know that, um, the cooperative that I lived at is probably one of the biggest, blackest cooperatives in Michigan. MM. Um, there are three hundred and fifty one units, and all of my neighbors are pretty cool in my mind. I'm thinking this development might, um, disturb this piece that I found in Detroit. Okay. But, um, I really wanted the residents of North Corktown to have a say in what was happening in the neighborhood. So you started out by saying you got involved by being nosey. Yes. Um, and you, you moved into North Corktown and then you got involved. Had you been involved in community development projects prior to. No, no, not not prior. I always had an interest in, um, what was going on in my neighborhood because, um, I went to Cooley High and the eighties. And where is Cooley High? Cooley high is on the northwest side of Detroit. Yep. It's a it's a pretty big high school. I wasn't meant to go there, but I saw a lot of things. I always described it as literally what happened. You can see the color of the sky changed. Mhm. When the drugs were introduced to the neighborhood and I literally saw my neighborhood change within a year. I was in ninth grade in eighty three, and that's when it all happened. Okay. And just being aware of what was going on in my community, I've always done that. The development, the interest in development came when I was in my twenties. I just wanted to know about, um, why were there no new new homes being built in the city? Okay. Um, so I've always had an interest in that. I just didn't move on it until I moved to North Corktown. Okay. So you talked about the color of the sky changing. Yeah. And in your neighborhood? Yeah. When I was younger, everything was bright and fun, and I lived on, Um. Marlo. Mhm. Um, between Finkle and Pilgrim. Right. And, um, you know, we were always playing outside. All of that changed in eighty three. And I think I remember it too, because my mom was pregnant with my younger sister. So I was fourteen. I was about to be a big sister, and I was just really paying attention to what was going on in the neighborhood. My father always made sure he read the newspaper, but there was so much going on in the neighborhood. Um, I remember seeing in the newspaper that Coyote and Pilgrim was marked as one of the most dangerous corners in the in the city. Um, and when I say the color of the sky changed, meaning we couldn't do the things that we did before. I could no longer walk to the store by myself. And I literally walked to the store singing a El DeBarge song, looking up at the sky. Yeah. Happy go lucky. That all changed when I hit high school. When you talked about getting more involved in North Corktown. You said that you were concerned about potential development. It wasn't any particular development. It was just development in general that usually gentrification that usually price, um, people who've been in the neighborhood for decades out of the neighborhood. And the cooperative was known as a sanctuary for single mothers basically, although I did not have children and I was not married, my townhouse in that community was a haven for women, for safety. And I did not want that disturbed with development that usually does not respect the neighborhood that they're developing in. So then, um, when the Ford Mobility Center or Central Station, when you heard about that development, um, did that spark particular concern? So the train station, it wasn't a big concern, but the stadium was the Little Caesars Arena, so we did want to preserve some of the open space because, again, the residents that were pouring into the neighborhood from two thousand and eight is when I noticed it. Mhm. Um, the reason they were pouring into it is because we had this vast amount of beautiful open space. It was all green in the summer. It looks amazing. And I know this because I walked through the neighborhood quite a bit. So we wanted we figured we we will start there to preserve some of the open space. And the developers did not care for that, but the city did. Um, we originally tried to, um, get the city to give us or sell us parcels in the neighborhood that we can use as a walking path. And they were like, no way, we cannot do that. So one of our board members suggested that, yeah, if we get all of these parcels and we put them in the land trust, then we can create projects separately under the umbrella of the land trust. So if we wanted a walking path in the neighbourhood, we don't necessarily have to create a not for profit or buy this land specifically for a walking path. We can buy the land, introduce it into the community land trust, and then we can start planning from there with the involvement of the community. Um community land trust. Um, I think they started back in the late sixties in the South. It was a way for sharecroppers to hold on to their land. Mhm. Um, you can, there are three models. You can use a community land trust for, for housing, which is the most prominent. And that's going on still going on in the South. Um, the other is to preserve open space. There are plenty of studies about the benefit of having access to open space in an urban area. And the third is for um to create a business district, an affordable business district. So those are the three models. And so far I've created the open space and then the housing. Yes, yes, yes. So it's the community land trust is essentially it's a nonprofit organization. Yes. Typically the nonprofit owns the land, but it's a very flexible model. That's like you pointed out, it's used for affordable housing, often used for open space. It can be used for commercial districts. How has the community received the Open Space Land Trust? Everyone was excited about it. Um, they were really excited about the, um, the community land trust because of the open space. But even in North Corktown, North Corktown is a very small neighborhood. So even with North Corktown being as small as it is, there's a divide in North Corktown. Once you cross fourteenth Street going towards the stadium. The demographics is totally different. So our residents across fourteenth Street, where all of the newer houses, they wanted the preservation of, um, of open space. That's the reason they moved there. Although they had their homes, you can cross a couple of blocks over and you have all of this vast open space. But the residents in Fountain Court, they particularly, they wanted open space, but they did not want open space at the sacrifice of getting amenities, I see. Yeah. So there are no amenities. It's a food desert. Our closest grocery store is Whole Foods and Honeybee, and they're both pretty expensive. If you are making the average wage in Detroit, which is not much compared to all of the other cities in Wayne County, right? So residents do appreciate the open space, but also need additional resources and amenities in the area. How do residents use the open space? Various ways. Um, of course as a park. Walking, taking children, taking your dog. I've seen celebrations at the park. A lot of our residents, myself included. We use it as a way to decompress. And right in front of the train station you have Roosevelt Park, which the the city put a lot of money into that park. That's beautiful. Right. Um, so open space is sort of the theme of North Park Town open space being inclusive and, um, art. How did you come to lead the affordable housing CLT? When I was a board member for North Corktown, um, our president stepped down and I at up until that time, I had been working really hard to get the community involved in what was going on. So my board members suggested I become the president. So becoming the president, bringing that park online, I got a chance to speak with a planner, um, from the city planning department, and they suggested that maybe you guys should consider becoming a, um, community development organization. Okay. And I was thinking that's a good idea, but we're going to stick with open space until we can get additional funding to expand the non for profits infrastructure, which included hiring, um, project manager and an executive director. But what I realized I was working full time at the time. I can't work full time, be the president and guide the executive director. So I spoke with the board, asked if they would mind if I transitioned to being the executive director. They did not mind. And in creating that community land trust, word got out quick and I was on a learning trip at a meeting with Darnell Adams of the Gilbert Family Foundation. He's the VP now, I think, and I was just venting that. I thought it was ridiculous at the time that people were expected to pay sixteen to eighteen hundred dollars a month for a one bedroom apartment or a two bedroom, but essentially that is a mortgage. It was unbelievable that you could not get approved to pay for a mortgage, but you could get approved to pay one thousand eight hundred dollars to rent. So he heard me and he heard about the Open Space Land Trust, and they had been looking for a neighborhood to partner with to create, um, a housing land trust. And because of their funding, I was able to just spread my wings into a dream of being a developer, which gave me connections with, um, various entities, including our city departments. I didn't just secure land for the housing. We secured nine parcels for the open for the Housing Community Land Trust, but I also secured nine parcels for the Open Space Land Trust. And in Detroit, if you're a not for profit, you can have a community partnership with the land Bank, and it will give you that community partnership, gives you a discount on the land that you purchase. Okay, so we got a really nice discount on the land that we purchased for the open space and for the community land trust. By the end of the year that that land had went up in, I want to say about twenty percent. Okay. After we purchased it. Okay. So because we were able to create that community land trust, I got eighteen parcels, seven of the parcels we developed on. We also used manufactured housing on those parcels on those seven parcels, because you can bring manufactured housing online in about four months, okay. Versus eighteen to twenty months with traditional, um, construction. Okay. And also with manufactured housing, um, you get more bang for your buck because all of your appliances come. I think it's a great model, particularly in a neighborhood that's being gentrified because the Community Land trust, um, sort of insulates the homes from disturbing the market of the houses around it. Okay. So the homes, it was my intentions to sell them for under three hundred, zero zero zero, which is still expensive for Detroit, but not for North Corktown to be able to get our entire house. Um, for three hundred, zero zero zero is a steal. So how many homes did you end up developing? We developed seven homes. Okay. Um, the range in square footage from just under eighteen hundred to just over seventeen hundred. We also worked with various financial institutions because we wanted to make sure that if a resident was interested in buying this home, there was a financial institution that would support the community land trust model, not just with the financing, but also offering down payment assistance. We wanted you to be able to stack your down payment assistance if you were eligible for it, and buying this house to drive down the affordability, right? We also work with Plant Moran to apply for an NES, which is the neighborhood enterprise zone, which gives a tax credit to the homeowner. That was a tedious process, but Plant Moran was awesome. So there are a lot of different steps involved in creating an affordable housing community land trust. Yes, yes. You've got to be conscious of getting the land and working with the municipality to get the land. You also have to work with a developer to build the homes on the land. And then obviously you need the financing to actually create the development, and then you need financing for the homeowners. That is correct. It's a community land trust. So you definitely have to have community engagement. So the planning department really honored my request to be intentional by providing shuttles, um, providing meetings at the Cooperative. Um, we developed a mailing list that everyone could be, um, informed either by mail or by social media or at the time of automatic phone call that we have this meeting coming up and you should attend because you are live in this neighborhood and your opinion about what happens is very important. Yes. We had four, um, community engagement sessions initially before we, even before it was even announced to the public. We wanted to gauge where the community was. And the first meeting was to introduce the project to the community. Okay. After we had the first meeting, then it was announced to the press. I believe the second meeting was to give the community an opportunity to to decide what design do they want? Do you want traditional? You want modern? The third meeting was to educate the community on the Community land trust, and the fourth meeting was financing. We invited my side down because my side provides, um, HUD approved home buying classes and then they connect you. Well, they help you get your credit straight, and then they connect you with a bank or a financial institution that can, can help you get a mortgage for buying the home. Right. So those, um, community meetings were very important to introducing the project to the community. Absolutely. One of the things that the city listened to the planning partner planning department listened to from the neighbors is that they wanted a community development center in the neighborhood. Okay. And we we have one coming now. It's coming to the center of the neighborhood on sixteenth Street where old elementary school used to be. Uh, city of Detroit planning department, the Housing and Revitalization department. They're very intentional now with involving the community when there's new development coming to our neighborhood. Mhm. Now, I would like to see that development in the most impoverished areas of Detroit. Let's start there. Sounds like the community is central to a community land trust. Exactly. And getting the community engaged early is is vital. Yes, it is, because you want to be able to deal with any concerns respectfully. There's always going to be someone who totally disagrees. Mhm. And I always, um, suggested to my board, just let them have their word. That's right. People want to be heard. And you you're not going to always agree with what the community has to say, but we just we want to respect it and come to some type of middle ground. Mhm. You know, we all can't get our way, but we can meet in the middle. What are some of the takeaways from working on both of these? Clts? The open space is definitely needed. I think it should be throughout the entire, um, city. Mhm. Another reason I'm a big fan of the train station. Mhm. The Michigan Central agreed to the Detroit Community Benefits Agreement. Yes, yes. We were able to partner with them, and we got twenty five thousand dollars from them to create a bird sanctuary. And we have a beautiful, um, variety of birds that literally come through the neighborhood because of the open space. Okay. So that was another reason to preserve it. You have deer and you have the birds and all of the other animals that are just able to roam free because there's no density or there wasn't any density in the neighborhood. In terms of the city of Detroit. There's a new administration here. Sheffield is the mayor. Do you see this administration as being open to Clts and using Clts as a way to protect, um, open space and as a way to provide more affordable housing? Yeah, I see, I see this administration, um, being interested in that because the CLT is just one model, but I think it's a model that will work in Detroit because Detroit is experiencing so many changes, particularly in a neighborhood like North Corktown. I think Clt's work best in neighborhoods that have been gentrified. You know, Detroit has that twenty five thousand dollars down payment assistance program for buying a house. Okay. I ran into one of the architects just by chance of that program, and I reached out to her by email, and I was able to find a link to a development Woodbridge off of the lodge in Trumbull. Mhm. Back in two thousand and eight, to buy one of those townhomes or one of those homes, there was a seventy five thousand dollars down payment assistance incentive. I think we need to get there. Mhm. And I'm hoping that the new administration will take us back there, where down payment assistance is, um, pumped up from twenty five to maybe fifty to seventy five. And we want to be able to draw the middle class back to the city. We want our police officers, our big three workers. We want our nurses, our teachers to all come back to the city. Um, and we need the housing stock to do that. And I think that, um, the community land trust can serve various, um, levels of income. It could be a mixed income solution to providing affordable housing. So last question, how can people who are interested in using this tool for their communities, how can they get involved? Um, I always suggest find out who your elected officials are, who is your council person? Who is your senator? Who is your congressperson? Kudos to all three in my neighborhood. Stephanie Chang, who's on her way out. She's lovely. We had Rashida as well. And my council person is Gabriela. Before Gabriela, it was Rachel. All lovely. Um, if you do not have a community organization in your neighborhood, Don't be shy to create one. Grassroots literally means two or three people making big strides in the neighborhood. And that's literally what I did without knowing I was doing it. Um, so I think you just start with your community and connecting with your elected officials and finding out who your planner is and the planning department, because each neighborhood has a planner. And I believe the, the planner is assigned based on city council districts. So wonderful. Well, thank you so much for joining me and sharing your expertise and all of your experience. Um, I think this is just so wonderful for people to be able to learn from you and all of the things that you've done to make North Corktown a vibrant community. So thank you for joining me today. You're very welcome, professor. Thank you for having me.